lovely+bones



Jesse Krantz (C)-Meeting Summary** At the meeting this week, we opened up by enjoying bagels brought in by Laura. The discussion began talking about the style of the story, since it is written in such a unique format. The story is written from the perspective of a girl who has died and gone to 'her' heaven. From her heaven she tells you not only what she sees in heaven but also what she sees occurring in the world. After talking about the format of the story we move into the characters of the story. The most important characters introduced so far include Susie and her family (including her father, mother, sister, and brother), George Harvey (Susie's murderer), Len Fenerman (The detective in Susie's case), Holly (Susie's best-friend in heaven), Franny (Susie's counselor in heaven). So far not much has been established except that Susie was murdered and the events following with her family. Susie just tells how her family begins to fall apart. She explains, from heaven, her parents splitting farther since they can not handle her passing. She also explains how in heaven she meets other people whose heavens collide with wishes of hers. Besides discussing those major topics, we also just shared our thoughts so far. Laura and Becca liked the book a lot, Shah was sort of neutral, leaning toward liking it just a little, but I do not like it. I just do not think that it is very interesting and is just sort of...boring. I guess I will just have to force through it and hope that there is a turn in the book that will sway my opinion. The discussion was very successful in sharing our individual opinions and was very helpful at giving us new views on the story from other perspectives.
 * Week 1

During our Book Group this week, we mostly discussed the characters. The first thing Laura, Shah, Jesse and I discussed was our love for Susie. We started with her because she was the first character introduced in the book. We decided that what made Susie interesting was how she told the story. She told the story of her death without saying how much she hated Mr Harvey (her murderer), there seemed to be an absence of anger towards him. She told the story in a peaceful manner, and we thought that was odd. We also liked her because of her innocence. All she wanted to do was go home and get some dinner before dark, which is when her mom wanted her home. Now that Susie is in heaven, she introduced us to her new best friend, Holly. The two girls both wanted their mothers, but instead were given Franny. Franny was aware of how much they wanted a mother, and she took on that role for them, which made us like her a lot. After we discussed the characters that we liked, we discussed pretty much the only character we didn't like. It was a unanimous decision that Mr. Harvey was our least favorite character. We all agreed that we hated him because he raped and killed Susie Salmon. He was creepy, and because of that, none of us liked him. His fake innocence disgusted us, we hated how he tricked people into thinking he was a good man by making dollhouses.
 * Becca Kaul (B) - Group DIscussion Leader**

Do you like the story so far with a recently murdered girl telling the story? I like the story with Susie telling the story because the story is just from the entire point of view of a person who was killed instead of other novels including stories of the rapists.
 * Sagar Shah (D) - Discussion Questions**

What is your favorite part so far in the novel? My favorite part so far is the rape scene because with the descriptions, i could actually imagine what susie went through.

Why do you think the author wrote the part about heaven in chapter 2? I think the author (Alice Sebold) wrote about heaven because she was explaining the Heaven Susie wanted after she died.

Who is your favorite character so far and why? My favorite character so far is Mr. Harvey because even though he murdered Susie, he has a story and i think that there is something that the reader does not know yet because he is trying to hinder that trait from the reader.

Why do you think Mr Harvey kept Susie's bracelet? I think that Mr. Harvey kept the bracelet so no one could figure out that he raped her and that it might take a longer time to realize who had been killed. Also, it could mean a memento for Mr. Harvey. Laura Bilash (A) - Bring in food


 * Laura Bilash (A)- Food**

Lovely Bones is written in a way that is so different from most other novels. Although it seems to be a normal and typical read, it is not. Susie Salmon, the main character, was murdered. She is talking throughout the entire book and is telling the story of her family as she sees it from heaven. I think that this type of language is very interesting and unique. It is definitely different, but it makes the novel much more intriguing. I would say that this novel is very easy to read. Although it is written in a very different perspective (that of Susie Salmon's), it is very well written and easy to follow. The overall language is easy to read and it is easy to understand the meaning of certain words just by using the context of the sentences. I wouldn't say that this book uses a lot of words that I do not understand, but it definitely uses a mix of some that I do know and some that I do not know. However, as said before, even if I do not quite know the meaning of a word, I can easily go back to that sentence and use the context clues from the sentence. I would probably say that this book is written at a 9th grade level, or just high school in general. Although this book is easy to read and follow, the topics and maturity level of it all is probably recommended mostly for high school students. I think that it is probably a better idea for older teenagers to read this book because it is most likely in both their maturity and reading level range. Overall, Lovely Bones is a novel that can be enjoyed by teenagers, mostly because the language is very clear and easy to follow, making it a great read.
 * __Week 2__**
 * Laura Bilash (B)- Discussion Leader**

Do you think Buckley actually sees Susie or did he make it up? Becca and Shah think that he did see Susie, that somehow she broke through to the world to see her family and he saw her. Laura and Ion the other hand, think that he is too little and does not know what e is talking about and is just a little kid making things up. He is most likely just saying that in hope that maybe she is still alive or maybe he dreams he saw he, yet he did not and is just being a little kid.
 * Jesse Krantz (D)- Questions**

Why is it that Harvey, someone who rapes and kills children is having disturbing dreams? Harvey is having these dreams because his past is finally catching up with him. The police are after him and so is Susie’s father. After lying to Susie’s dad, he is now seeing the severity of his actions.

Was it appropriate for Susie’s grandmother to show Lindsey who Mr. Salmon suspects killed Susie? No, she should have waited until they were positive that he killed her also it caused her to faint at the funeral, so it certainly wasn’t appropriate. She just came in for the funeral and has ruined the family. The father thought that Harvey did it, but even he did not say anything, but the grandma, without the parents’ permission told her and took a polar standpoint on the situation than the parents were trying to use. From this action, nothing positive can occur; since the only thing that might happen is that Lindsey tries to take the matters into her own hands and that would indefinitely result badly. Also, most importantly, the grandma causes Lindsey to faint at the funeral after telling her this news.

Do you think that having to plan the best murder bothers Lindsey or not? Yes, because Susie is just bottling up all her feelings. Although she did not show that she was upset to her principal, she is facing a lot of pain. The pain is seen when she throws up after hearing about her sister’s bone being found and when she faints at the funeral.

What is the meaning of Susie remembering all of Harvey’s victims’ stories, while Harvey doesn’t even know them himself? It shows how heartless Harvey is, since he kills all these children, but he does not even remember them. It also shows how Susie feels for these people and wishes that someone was watching her murder so that Harvey would finally be able to be put in jail for his actions.

Is Jack Salmon’s obsession over Harvey just a way to help him cope with the murder, or will he actually make progress on his daughter’s case? Both, Jack does use this to cope with his daughter’s murder by taking the matter into his own hands. He might not be doing much, but he does have a positive effect since he is able to do more investigating than the police, who need warrants and to follow the laws, while he can just snoop around and do whatever he can to get his revenge.

Does it make any difference that Harvey tries to quit his addiction by only killing animals, not children, or is he just as guilty? He is still as guilty, but he gets some credit since he is trying to move away from killing dogs. Although he is now trying to stop killing, he cannot undo his previous murders and so he is still just as guilty. This does show a more humane side of Harvey, but he should still be guilty of the same charges as he was when he was murdering other children.

Do you think Jack will stop going after Harvey due to a lack of support and him making so many mistakes, or will he stay devoted to his cause no matter what the cost? Jack will probably not stop going after Harvey since he is doing all of this as a way to cope with his daughter’s death. He may feel that this makes him feel less guilty. Therefore, he will not stop at any cost since he has already lost his daughter and has nothing more to lose.

How do you think Susie feels while watching her father attempting to kill Clarissa? She feels really sad because her dad is making the mistake and she is embarrassed to have to watch her dad doing this while she knows that he is attacking the wrong person, but there is nothing she can do about it. While watching, all she can do is watch the horrible event and hope for the best.


 * Sagar Shah (A)- Food

Becca Kaul (C)- Meeting Summary For week two of the book club, we started off with delicious bagels from Shah, and began our discussion. We talked about Sebold's writing style, and it seemed that Jesse's questions kept the meeting going. We talked for a while about how bad we felt for Lindsay, Susie's sister. After being devastated from her sisters murder, her grandmother shows her who her parents think killed Susie, and then Lindsay faints. Lindsay seems to be hiding from her sadness about her sisters death. And we were all especially horrified and shocked that the camp would have a murder activity. Susie's father believes that Mr. Harvey is Susie's killer, which surprised all of us because he is completely right, and generally in murder novels, the victim's parent's have no idea who possibly could have killed their child. We were also surprised that Harvey had some sort of remorse (even though it was still sick and twisted). He decided to kill pets and dogs instead of children, which is a step in the right direction, but another step towards animal cruelty, which we all decided wasn't that much better. Laura and I love the book, while Jesse and Shah are still indifferent about it, and the discussion this week showed that.

****__Week 3__

Laura Bilash (C)- Meeting Summary** This weeks book club meeting went very well. We started off with bagels from Jesse, and then eagerly went into discussing the book. Although Becca was not there, Jesse, Shah, and I were able to come up with some questions of our own to discuss. Firstly, we began discussing the mood and tone of the book, which was the topic for this week. We all agreed that the book is very mysterious and dark in the way that it is written. Because it is about a family coping with the death of their daughter and trying to find the murderer, the overall tone is not exactly happy. We also began discussing about the situation with Susie's younger brother, Buckley. Several times Buckley has told his friend Nate that he saw Susie. He told him that she came in one night and kissed him on the cheek. There seems to be something going on with Buckley, and we mostly think that he is just confused. He is so young and probably cannot grasp the full concept of death. However, there was also a reference in the book that said that he was behind his other classmates in school. We do not know what this could mean, but it definitely means something. Soon after, we began discussing the situation of Mr. Harvey and all of the other girls and women that he has killed. So far in heaven, Susie has only met Flora Hernandez, but there are many other girls that she is going to get to meet. This is going to add an unique twist to the book, and it will be interesting to see the interaction of Susie and these girls in heaven. So far, Becca and I are enjoying the book very much. On the other hand, Shah and Jesse are still not quite on the same page. Hopefully by reading the next portion of the book, their views will change.


 * Sagar Shah (B)- Discussion Leader:**

This week the topic of discussion was the tone of the novel so far. The mood is, for the most part, very poignant and sad. We mourn for Susie right along with her family and friends. We grieve as well for the unfulfilled desires she feels in heaven and her inability to let go of Earth. This is an example of when Susie kept on stating how much she wanted to be with her brother and how also that she never knew some people and she wanted to have experience everything in life. At times, the mood is also suspenseful as we watch Mr. Harvey stalk his victims because the words mesmerize the reader in a world of danger and unrelenting pain. The book so far has the same feeling... It is dark and dreary, but sometimes it opens up with a little light. Also, this novel is not that great so far due to the dreariness of the setting and how the mood has a low-paced movement. The suspense exists, but there is not as much that I would expect from a novel.


 * Becca Kaul (D)- Questions**

1) Where do you think Abigail went when she left her family? Do you think she would have left her home even if Susie was alive? She probably just went somewhere to gather her thoughts about the family's situation. If Susie was alive she would have no need to leave and gather herself.

2) What do you think Abigail meant when she said she wanted to be more than a mother? We think that she meant that she wanted to have a relationship with her kids and family more than just being there mother. Now that Susie is gone she can not be either and now the family is falling apart.

3) Why do you think that George Harvey drives by the scene of where he killed Susie? Harvey might be looking to see if he should be worried or if the police made any progress toward finding him. Another reason he is passing is because he may be finally realozing the consequences behind his actions as the story suggests leading into toward this point in the book.

4) Do you think that Abigail feels any guilt or sadness when she comes home? We think that Abigail does feel guilt and sadness, but she can not help doing what she did in the situation, since the family is falling apart and there is a depleting bond between the family and Abigail and all the other Salmons know it.

5) What do you think is going to happen in the end of the book now that everyone knows that Mr. Harvey committed the murder? Half of our book group (Jesse and I) thinks that Mr. Harvey will get away with the murder and maybe learn a lesson from it, which will finalize an overall theme in the book, or just get away with the murder and leave the family destroyed. Laura and Shah think that Harvey will be caught and brought to justice and finally bring the Salmon's back together.

6) Do you think Susie is happy that her mom returned? Or do you think that she is mad at her for abandoning her family? We think that Susie understands the family's situation and understands why her mother left. She most likely is saddened since she is watching, helplessly as her family falls apart. But she most likely does not hold any of that against her mother particularly.


 * __Week 4__**


 * Laura Bilash (D)- Questions**

1. What do you think was the cause of Jack Salmon's heart attack? Do you think it had anything to do with the argument between him and Buckley about Susie's clothes? Mr. Salmon's heart attack could have been linked to the stress of Susie's death. Although it was eight years later, he was still dealing with so much grief. Also, he and Buckley were having an argument about using Susie's clothes because Jack didn't want Buckley to use them. Buckley brought up Susie and started to confront him about how he was feeling. During that time, Mr. Salmon was feeling so much stress and grief that he probably couldn't handle it, which could have possibly caused the heart attack.

2. Even though it has been eight years since Susie's death, do you think Len Fenerman will still have the dignity to keep searching for George Harvey? Len Fenerman will still want to help find Susie's murderer, but it is not his main focus at the time. If certain clues come up, such as the murder that was linked to a murder in 1976 (the year of Susie's death), Len felt a need to full the case back out eight years later. Of course he will still do as much as he can to find George Harvey, who is the possible murderer.

3. Do you think that Ruth's ability to have flashbacks of stranger's deaths will play a role in Susie's death and the search for her murderer?

It is very possible that the two could be linked together in the future. Right now, Ruth does not know who the victim's are in her flashbacks, but she can see them getting killed. We think that Ruth is actually seeing every woman who got killed by George Harvey, and finally, she should see Susie. This could help greatly in the search for Susie's murderer, because then it would be clear that George Harvey was the murderer. However, we are not sure how many people will actually believe Ruth when she says what is happening to her.

4. What was the main reason why Mrs. Salmon left her family? Do you think after eight years she was able to overcome Susie's death and the stress of her family?

Mrs. Salmon probably left her family because she couldn't deal with all of the stress and grief. She didn't know if she loved her husband anymore, especially because she had an affair with Len Fenerman. We think she was overwhelmed, confused, and didn't know what she wanted to do with her life. Even though it has been eight years, we still think that Mrs. Salmon is not fully over the death of Susie. She probably never will, but we think she is still having a difficult time dealing with it.

5. Why do you think Buckley thought using Susie's clothes for his garden was okay? What was he exactly trying to tell his father?

We think that Buckley thought it was okay to use Susie's clothes because he was able to deal with her death. He has been able to deal with it for eight years, even when he was the youngest person in his household. He also probably didn't think much about it, and he didn't think anyone would mind. We think that Buckley was trying to tell his father that he needs to get over Susie's death and cope with it in a better way. It has been eight years and there are two other children that he needs to think about.

From beginning to start, the group discussion for this book was filled with controversy. Jesse, and I absolutely despise this book, whereas Becca is pretty moderate in her beliefs. Laura is alone and on her own because she loves this novel. We started our discussion by noshing for about ten minutes on delicious bagels from Ronnie's with cream cheese and some orange juice. When we evolved our noshing into a mini debate, everything was heating up. I failed to comprehend how such a novel could become a movie that people would like. Also, this story is a pathetic excuse for Alice Seblold to make some money. This book is just a waste of time is basically what Jesse and I said because Susie is a boring character. Also, nobody cares about her story. Laura and Becca on the other side, defended these words by saying that the book is interesting because the story is pretty unique and the book is fun to read. Jesse and I fended them off, but no side won in the end because we all had personal beliefs. I have to say that all the discussions so far in the group are still pretty interesting.
 * Sagar Shah (C)- Group Meeting Summary:**


 * Jesse Krantz (B)- Discussion Leader: Themes/Images**

Throughout the novel a common theme is grief, since the story focuses on Susie's family dealing with her death after she already died. You constantly watch Susie's family dealing with the loss of her and how her dead causes all the grief that the family deals with in the novel. Another theme that is intertwined with the first is loss. The family is constantly dealing with Susie's loss, which is both a good and horrible thing, since it brings the family closer together after facing the loss of susie, but on the other hand leads to grief and the collapse of the family. The charm bracelet is the most important image in the book, representing Susie and her presence in the family although she had died. The in-between that its often referred to is a representation of purgatory and the state in which Susie and her family are stuck, unable to move forward. The snow globe is an important image to Susie's dad representing his connection to Susie. The map given to Susie shows her where all the other victims are represents company to Susie since she is not alone. The lovely bones represent Susie and her connection to her family, which is the only thing keeping her family stuck together. The book is full of themes and common images that show a deeper message behind the story.


 * __Week 5__**


 * Laura Bilash (A) - Food

Becca Kaul (B) - Final Reflections

The book has come to an end this week, and as a group, we decided that the book was not all that it was made out to be. Friends and family have recommended it to us, though we would not recommend it to them. We felt it was somewhat mediocre with its conclusion. We were expecting an intriguing and exciting, unexpected ending, and unfortunately, we didn't get that. The book gave us what we expected in a less than exciting way. We feel the topic of the afterlife has been talked about better in other books, and so has rape and the dealing of loss within a family. Although symbolism was used well among a few other things, as a group, we decided this book should not be considered in school curriculums. It was unfortunately not all that it was made out to be, and wasn't a good read for people of our age. Laura, Shah and I didn't find it to be horrible, just a regular book while Jesse strongly disliked the book. Jesse Krantz (C) - Meeting Summary**

This week at the meeting, we discussed the book's conclusion and our final thoughts of the book as a whole. Near the end of the book, Mr. Harvey returns to the neighborhood he used to live in, where Susie's family is and where he murdered Susie. Mr. Harvey then returns to his new whereabouts where he is stalking another victim, but after all attempts to lure the women out fail the women rides away and an icicle falls on Mr. Harvey and sends him tumbling down a hillside to his ultimate demise. We think that Harvey's death was very irrelevant to the story. We think that Harvey's death was not as meaningful as it should have been, since he is the villain of the story and he just left and died with nobody knowing it. We thought that Harvey's death should have at least influenced the story in some way, such as making Susie's family feel better or something; but it did not. Also, at the end of the story, there is no major breakthrough with Susie's family, they are still left in shambles from Susie's passing and still completely torn apart. Our opinions on the book are very diverse. Laura and Becca thought the book was good (with an exeption for the ending which was horrible), Shah also liked the book, but thought that it was just alright, and I, Jesse, thought that the book was horrible. I thought that there was not enough excitment or plot to get me through the book and had to struggle just doing the weekly readings since it was so boring. Although disagreeing on how good the book was, we all agreed that it incorperated a lot of symbolism and themes although it lacked action and suspense.

1) Is Jack Salmon allowing himself to be swallowed up by his grief? Is there a point where he should have let go?
 * Sagar Shah (D) - Discussion Questions:**

Yes. Jack Salmon does allows himself to be swallowed up by his grief because he still wants to find his daughter's murderer, but he is losing the battle against time. He wants to create peace and there is not a point where he should have let go. I say this because he wants to find the killer of his precious Susie and he won't rest until he does, but he came too short and lost.

2) How does his grief process affect his family? Is there something admirable about holding on so tightly to Susie's memory and not denying his profound sadness?

His grief process affects the whole family in both ways. Positively, no one wants to rest until Susie's killer is found. Also, the negative aspect to this is that the restless nights that Jack has is killing him and the family, but it brings out suspense and love throughout the novel.

3) Ray and Susie's final physical experience (via Ruth's body) seems to act almost as an exorcism that sweeps away, if only temporarily, Susie's memory of her rape. What is the significance of this act for Susie, and does it serve to counterbalance the violent act that ended Susie's life?

This act is everything to Susie. This encounter wiped away her feelings from the rape scene and it did counterbalance the rape. I say this because when Ruth's body was laying there, Susie and Ray came together. As zen as this sounds, the feelings and mind fused and Susie's scene of death and rape vanished. The sadness in her life was gone and she can rest peacefully in heaven because of that.

4) Alice Sebold seems to be saying that out of tragedy comes healing. Susie's family fractures and comes back together, a town learns to find strength in each other. Do you agree that good can come of great trauma?

Yes, i agree that good can come out of Trauma. I have my own little story that i think can reflect the model in the novel. When i was eight, I got hit by a car. This car was speeding in a school zone and knocked me out from the left side. Obviously I went to the hospital, but I was there for two weeks. With five hours of surgery, hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, two weeks in the intensive care unit, and the EMT scissoring away at my brother's favorite jacket, my family and I were suffering. Then, while I was in the hospital, my friends, family, and teachers came to visit me. Now, with this trauma that forever blinds me with fear, will create a path for me to slowly digress into peace. I say now, the good is happening. I can tell my survival story and I can relate my life to others. I might have only been eight, but my entire neighborhood helped me get back up because my family was involved in the town. Everyone I saw thought it was a miracle i survived because a car speeding at 45 mph just leveled me and threw me twelve feet into the air and then dropped me into submission. I am lucky enough to tell this story and isn't that good enough for sharing at the least?

5) "Pushing on the inbetween" is how Susie describes her efforts to connect with those she has left behind on Earth. Have you ever felt as though someone was trying to communicate with you from "the inbetween"?

As stated in my last response, my tragedy left me impaired for a year and a half. My mind was still dysfunctional and i re-learned how to do everything. Although I was unconscious for at least five hours, I did not feel this. "The in between" is a stage for many to feel in times right before death. Although I have had a death experience, i knew that I would not die. An eight year-old would not die that day and I worked hard to make sure that I did not die (that's what the doctors told me). I did as a matter of fact, feel something though. It was the tingling feeling of my mind opening. An experience like that changes a man and for me, life just flashed by. I remembered my ups and downs in only eight years. My trips and adventures with family and friends. I know that someone is trying to communicate with me at all times, but in such a period of devastation for one's mind and body, cannot happen until someone dies and not many can live to say that because there is always an exception to the rule.